Roger's RRC: An update
Today I tried a bottle of that Force Engine Flush and - eerm - it's very impressive! I tipped it in and went for a very gentle drive rather than leave it idling for 40 minutes like the instructions (I don't like idling - it causes condensation and upsets the neighbours), and when I got back I changed the oil.
Points of note:
1. The oil that came out was like water - in spite of only being a few weeks old.
2. When I looked in the top of the engine, the bit of metalwork that you can see was DRY! No sign of oil at all!
I am assuming that there are some pretty powerful detergents or solvents in that Force stuff, so now I am going to change the oil again to make sure I have got it all out! Don't worry, at this stage I am only using super-cheap 20/50 so the cost of a 2nd oil change is not over the top.
Points of note:
1. The oil that came out was like water - in spite of only being a few weeks old.
2. When I looked in the top of the engine, the bit of metalwork that you can see was DRY! No sign of oil at all!
I am assuming that there are some pretty powerful detergents or solvents in that Force stuff, so now I am going to change the oil again to make sure I have got it all out! Don't worry, at this stage I am only using super-cheap 20/50 so the cost of a 2nd oil change is not over the top.
Classic Cut - like Camel Cut but with less inuendo
During my inaugural trial I found that on EXTREME articulation 
my rear tyres were catching the bodywork. On closer examination (at home) it became clear that this rubbing is confined to three areas at the rear on both sides:
1. The front edge of the the wheel arch on the lower door-skin
2. The rear edge of the the wheel arch on the lower wing-skin
3. The rear underside of the inner wheel arch
In order to address items 1. & 2. I have done a "Classic Cut" which I will be tidying up with edging trim and builders foam to fill the gaps where the door is double skinned
Anyway, here is a photo of it so far:
I think it looks quite nice
And for item 3, I think I will have to lift the body.. I don't particularly want to go 2", that would entail too many changes to make it look right, but 1" would be good - anybody know of a cheap source of spacers? (I am watching some on eBay, but they are in Walsall and he doesn't want to post them
my rear tyres were catching the bodywork. On closer examination (at home) it became clear that this rubbing is confined to three areas at the rear on both sides:
1. The front edge of the the wheel arch on the lower door-skin
2. The rear edge of the the wheel arch on the lower wing-skin
3. The rear underside of the inner wheel arch
In order to address items 1. & 2. I have done a "Classic Cut" which I will be tidying up with edging trim and builders foam to fill the gaps where the door is double skinned
Anyway, here is a photo of it so far:
I think it looks quite nice
And for item 3, I think I will have to lift the body.. I don't particularly want to go 2", that would entail too many changes to make it look right, but 1" would be good - anybody know of a cheap source of spacers? (I am watching some on eBay, but they are in Walsall and he doesn't want to post them
I have been so lucky, lucky lucky lucky
Well the 600 (actually 800) mile trip passed without 'apparent' incident, until afterwards, when I decided to sort out the oil leak that had become visible from the NSR drive-flange/hub joint.
I had spotted the leak when checking hubs/tyres as I habitually do at every stop on a long journey, but had decided it wasn't very serious and could wait until I got home... Incidentally this is the only proper leak so far from anything I have had apart
Anyway - when I removed the wheel at home I found that all 5 flange bolts were loose (actually they were out about 5mm! ) and only the fact that the alloy wheel covers the end of the flange had prevented the half-shaft from sliding right out!
Imagine a Range Rover half-shaft bouncing down the motorway at 60mph - it doesn't bear thinking about! 
As I saw the state of it I had an instant flashback to me just nipping up those bolt and thinking "Right - do NOT forget to put the spring washers on those and torque them down".... Obviously I never did I hope (but don't expect) that's the only serious error I have made in the four years of working on it - if it is I will be pleased ...
Fingers crossed...
I had spotted the leak when checking hubs/tyres as I habitually do at every stop on a long journey, but had decided it wasn't very serious and could wait until I got home... Incidentally this is the only proper leak so far from anything I have had apart
Anyway - when I removed the wheel at home I found that all 5 flange bolts were loose (actually they were out about 5mm! ) and only the fact that the alloy wheel covers the end of the flange had prevented the half-shaft from sliding right out!
Imagine a Range Rover half-shaft bouncing down the motorway at 60mph - it doesn't bear thinking about!
As I saw the state of it I had an instant flashback to me just nipping up those bolt and thinking "Right - do NOT forget to put the spring washers on those and torque them down".... Obviously I never did
I hope (but don't expect) that's the only serious error I have made in the four years of working on it - if it is I will be pleased ...
Fingers crossed...
Re: I have been so lucky, lucky lucky lucky
I did a bit more work last weekend - preparing for marshalling at http://www.theomm.com/event/aboutTheEvent.html - a two day mountain marathon which this year is in the Elan Valley:
I fitted a NetBook stand and wiring for GPS, some 'off-road' reversing/work lights and a switch-controlled triple fag-lighter unit .
The lights were a bit of a mistake since I re-used some Ring units from the front spoiler and forgot that they are spots so they nicely light up about two square feet of ground behind me. I had a go at de-focussing them, but couldn't manage it without more effort than I am prepared to put into them. Anyway - they actually work ok - long distance reversing lights with enough overspill for seeing what you are doing on the tailgate
The NetBook stand works great - I have wired in feeds for power and a GPS dongle which sits on the bonnet while in use and under it when not. Only waiting for double sided tape to arrive so I can fit Velcro strips (great idea from Nick) for holding it down. I may have to trim it a little at a later date sine I occasionally catch my hand on it - but I think I will probably learn to avoid it so we'll see about that.
All wiring is properly rated, fused and through relays, although is not that tidy to look at - but if you know me you would have expected that
Pictures:
The mount from below - since the dash is re-enforced with steel at this point, the whole thing is very firm:
The mount from above - note that it is offset to the left for clearance when my hand is returning from stick to wheel:
Also visible in the above shot is the switch controlled triple fag lighter socket which is capable of being on without the ignition.
The magnetic mounting GPS dongle on the bonnet (which is steel of course).
Compared to inside behind the heated screen, the little bars indicating signal strength jump about 30% when outside so worth doing I think:
But then of course it looks eminently nickable there, so I needed to be able to hide it away when not in use:
The final efect in cab:
And finally here is a shot of the (off-road only, with a big red f-off warning light) reversing/work lights:
The row of window stickers are from previous KIMM (now TheOMM) events. It is VERY IMPORTANT that people overtaking you on the way to the event realise your status
The car still running great on gas or petrol and to say I am very pleased with it would be an understatement
I fitted a NetBook stand and wiring for GPS, some 'off-road' reversing/work lights and a switch-controlled triple fag-lighter unit .
The lights were a bit of a mistake since I re-used some Ring units from the front spoiler and forgot that they are spots so they nicely light up about two square feet of ground behind me. I had a go at de-focussing them, but couldn't manage it without more effort than I am prepared to put into them. Anyway - they actually work ok - long distance reversing lights with enough overspill for seeing what you are doing on the tailgate
The NetBook stand works great - I have wired in feeds for power and a GPS dongle which sits on the bonnet while in use and under it when not. Only waiting for double sided tape to arrive so I can fit Velcro strips (great idea from Nick) for holding it down. I may have to trim it a little at a later date sine I occasionally catch my hand on it - but I think I will probably learn to avoid it so we'll see about that.
All wiring is properly rated, fused and through relays, although is not that tidy to look at - but if you know me you would have expected that
Pictures:
The mount from below - since the dash is re-enforced with steel at this point, the whole thing is very firm:
The mount from above - note that it is offset to the left for clearance when my hand is returning from stick to wheel:
Also visible in the above shot is the switch controlled triple fag lighter socket which is capable of being on without the ignition.
The magnetic mounting GPS dongle on the bonnet (which is steel of course).
Compared to inside behind the heated screen, the little bars indicating signal strength jump about 30% when outside so worth doing I think:
But then of course it looks eminently nickable there, so I needed to be able to hide it away when not in use:
The final efect in cab:
And finally here is a shot of the (off-road only, with a big red f-off warning light) reversing/work lights:
The row of window stickers are from previous KIMM (now TheOMM) events. It is VERY IMPORTANT that people overtaking you on the way to the event realise your status
The car still running great on gas or petrol and to say I am very pleased with it would be an understatement
Re: I have been so lucky, lucky lucky lucky
Hmmm - head gasket's gone.
After a few weeks of occasional pressurisation of the coolant and me hoping it would last until after Christmas, I was on the M62 heading for a Welsh green-laning day when I noticed significant amounts of steam coming out of the exhaust. The temp was normal so I stopped to check the water at the next junction (only about a mile) and the top hose was stone cold but rock hard. So I topped it up and came home (on back roads) and started stripping it... Funny though, all the time it was running great - apart from the water down the exhaust and the pressurisation there were no symptoms...
Now the questions -
1. I have a serpentine V8 in the garage that I bought off eBay a while ago with the intent of rebuilding it through the winter in preparation for a future engine swap. Now that I have a blown engine in situ and the clutch is relatively new, I think it would make sense to rebuild the one that's in there (if the block is ok) rather than rebuild the serp and then have to swap engines too - does that seem sensible?
2. Unfortunately the receipt I got for the serp does not show the engine number - does that mean I can't legally use it?
2. If the block is ok on the present engine, would the serpentine stuff just bolt on? - I am particularly interested in the newer oil pump, removal of the current multiple belts and removal of the dizzy.
Roger
Oh - and will the BMW get into Briercliff ok?
After a few weeks of occasional pressurisation of the coolant and me hoping it would last until after Christmas, I was on the M62 heading for a Welsh green-laning day when I noticed significant amounts of steam coming out of the exhaust. The temp was normal so I stopped to check the water at the next junction (only about a mile) and the top hose was stone cold but rock hard. So I topped it up and came home (on back roads) and started stripping it... Funny though, all the time it was running great - apart from the water down the exhaust and the pressurisation there were no symptoms...
Now the questions -
1. I have a serpentine V8 in the garage that I bought off eBay a while ago with the intent of rebuilding it through the winter in preparation for a future engine swap. Now that I have a blown engine in situ and the clutch is relatively new, I think it would make sense to rebuild the one that's in there (if the block is ok) rather than rebuild the serp and then have to swap engines too - does that seem sensible?
2. Unfortunately the receipt I got for the serp does not show the engine number - does that mean I can't legally use it?
2. If the block is ok on the present engine, would the serpentine stuff just bolt on? - I am particularly interested in the newer oil pump, removal of the current multiple belts and removal of the dizzy.
Roger
Oh - and will the BMW get into Briercliff ok?
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davew
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- Full Name: Dave White
1) If it's just a head gasket that's let go (which it sounds like) I'd jut stick a new one in it and be done. Don't over complicate things If it's a 3 row head just remember not to torque up the outer row.
2) It shouldn't be a problem although you MAY have to get an MOT place or an auto engineer to confirm the capacity. As far as I can tell the current DVLA obsession is more to do with displacement changes than anything else. I have a made up engine number on my old 3.9, I therefore have no receipt showing the number but had no problems changing the number on the V5 for Pam's 90 to my made up one a couple of months ago, I just put in a covering letter explaining where I got the engine, no receipt required.
I had to stamp the made up one in because it had had a replacement block which was never stamped. When i shipped it out to Australia I had to stamp it up so customs could check the engine number against the documentation.
2) No reason why the serpentine stuff won't bolt on to the current block BUT given that the "serpentine stuff" includes the crankshaft I'm not sure it's worth it at this stage. The oil pump is driven off the crankshaft rather than the distributor so has an extra gear built in that's missing on the older crank.
If it's a 3 row head just remember not to torque up the outer row.
2) It shouldn't be a problem although you MAY have to get an MOT place or an auto engineer to confirm the capacity. As far as I can tell the current DVLA obsession is more to do with displacement changes than anything else. I have a made up engine number on my old 3.9, I therefore have no receipt showing the number but had no problems changing the number on the V5 for Pam's 90 to my made up one a couple of months ago, I just put in a covering letter explaining where I got the engine, no receipt required.
I had to stamp the made up one in because it had had a replacement block which was never stamped. When i shipped it out to Australia I had to stamp it up so customs could check the engine number against the documentation.
2) No reason why the serpentine stuff won't bolt on to the current block BUT given that the "serpentine stuff" includes the crankshaft I'm not sure it's worth it at this stage. The oil pump is driven off the crankshaft rather than the distributor so has an extra gear built in that's missing on the older crank.
I once bought an E plate Ex Police Range Rover which had a Land Rover Recon engine fitted and the engine number recorded on the log book as CR9751. The observant of you will recognise this to be the the compression ratio CR 9.75:1, pity the boys in blue didn't.
Crank journals on post 93 Cross bolt block are larger so the cracks are not interchangeable with early block.
Roger
The Early 3.5/3.9 block is part number ERC6619, later 3.9/4.0 and 4.6 are HRC1800 I've seen thousands of the things, they were made in Leeds for the best part of 30years. Older block has a date stamp (Year, Week and shift number) just above the sump line, later blocks are in the same place or behind the flywheel so you can identify exact year without an engine number. To know what capacity it is put a piece of welding wire down a spark plug hole and mark the top and bottom of the stroke on it. 3.9 is 71mm, 4.6 is 82mm.
The story about porous castings was inaccurate there was actually a design fault that was raised with Land Rover before they went in to production. When you stacked the casting and machining tolerances you could be 0.5mm in to the water jacket which then leaked up the side of the liner. If you remove the valley gasket on HRC1800 block you will usually find a number to one decimal place written on either side. This is where Land Rover have checked the position of the water jacket and applied an offset before machining.
Crank journals on post 93 Cross bolt block are larger so the cracks are not interchangeable with early block.
Roger
The Early 3.5/3.9 block is part number ERC6619, later 3.9/4.0 and 4.6 are HRC1800 I've seen thousands of the things, they were made in Leeds for the best part of 30years. Older block has a date stamp (Year, Week and shift number) just above the sump line, later blocks are in the same place or behind the flywheel so you can identify exact year without an engine number. To know what capacity it is put a piece of welding wire down a spark plug hole and mark the top and bottom of the stroke on it. 3.9 is 71mm, 4.6 is 82mm.
The story about porous castings was inaccurate there was actually a design fault that was raised with Land Rover before they went in to production. When you stacked the casting and machining tolerances you could be 0.5mm in to the water jacket which then leaked up the side of the liner. If you remove the valley gasket on HRC1800 block you will usually find a number to one decimal place written on either side. This is where Land Rover have checked the position of the water jacket and applied an offset before machining.
Last edited by Bo on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
5/4 of people admit that they’re bad with fractions.
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Matthews
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- Full Name: Matthew Sykes
The serpentine and non serpentine cranks are different but the only difference in the keyway for the timing chain pulley, it goes a lot further back/forward on the serp crank to drive the oil pump, my 3.5 had a serp 3.9 crank in it with the earlier pulleys on it , if you remove the crank pulley and timing cover and chain you'll be able to see if the keyway is a lot longer than necessary.
Matthew
Matthew
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